A while ago, I ran into Pierre-Emmanuel Taittinger on a train. After a quick chat, we agreed to meet again. In the end, it gave us this interview, in which we cover a great many topics. We hope you enjoy it!
Pierre-Emmanuel, can you introduce yourself?
I’m Pierre-Emmanuel Taittinger, I’m in the twilight of my working life since I’m 66. I’m wrapping up a career in a champagne house I joined at the age of 24. I’ll explain to you why it’s not ending right away, but broadly I’m in the twilight of my working life, and perhaps even of my life altogether. That’s how it is, and it’s just fine.
You join the Taittinger house at 24. What do you do before that?
Before, I was a very bad student. I didn’t like school and I still don’t like it any more today. I understood much later why I’d been a bad student. I realised I had a concentration problem. Good students can sit for four hours listening to the teachers talk, being very serious. Me, I was a back-of-the-class student, near the radiator, with a great capacity to daydream. It didn’t help me in my studies, but it helped me a great deal in my working life. I believe that having a capacity to dream is very important. In that sense I owe a lot to my mother, who is a wonderful artist and who always taught me to dream and to live in a world where my poetry counts a great deal. I think that if I’ve developed energy and know-how, this capacity to dream is fundamental in today’s life. I joined the company as a simple champagne salesman, as a sales rep. I was paid on commission. I started selling champagne quite simply because a nightclub manager told me “since you don’t know what to do, your name is Taittinger, you might as well sell champagne”. In the end that’s what I started doing, and it let me meet the woman who would become my wife and who also wanted me to get to work. Very quickly, my uncle Claude, who was the house’s chairman, found that I wasn’t doing too badly. So he brought me into the house as a “salesman plus”. I had to go back to studying. I did a business school diploma, then a second one in Paris. He wanted me to have qualifications, so I sat them and I got them, without any pleasure. I started to move up in the company until I reached the position of general manager. The Taittinger family then decided, by a very large majority, to sell a family group. It was a larger group present in many fields: champagne, luxury hotels, the Baccarat crystal works. This group was bought by an American group called Starwood Capital. Very quickly, the latter resold assets. The first thing they resold was the champagne. As they saw I was interested in this business, I put myself forward as a candidate (against around forty other candidates). We were able to take back Champagne Taittinger with the help of Crédit Agricole Nord Est. So I’ve been chairman for 11 years.
Who did you sell these bottles of champagne to at the start?
I had the Haute-Savoie territory. I had a little 2CV. I had no sales pitch. I also had the price lists. People thought that because my name is Taittinger I knew champagne, which wasn’t quite true. I had the gift of the gab and I was likeable. Our champagne is very good, so that helps. I wasn’t a great salesman because I didn’t have the basics of the trade. People used to say of me that I worked little but that, when I got to it, I got results and I worked fast. I’d get a maximum of orders very quickly. That’s actually why my uncle Claude hired me in the company.
What do you look after when you join the company?
I was given the English market. I did full sales with a distributor. Then I went back to Reims where I was in charge of mass retail: the hypermarkets and supermarkets. I became the company’s sales director and the house’s great ambassador around the world. Then deputy general manager, then general manager. The group is sold, then bought back. So I became chairman.
How does this role of great ambassador go for you?
It’s grown a lot. Today, my son Clovis, who is the great salesman of the house, has 250 emails to deal with a day. Business moves much faster today. Back then, it was a lot of public relations. French wines dominated the world, whereas today they have a very fine place but a market share that’s shrinking. It was based on friendship, you’d throw a cocktail party, you’d meet the hotel directors, you’d shake hands and it was settled. Today, it’s much more technical, but the human factor always remains. We’ll never do without the rapport between a buyer and a seller. The human element will always play a very important role. That’s borne out by all the teams I’ve put in place. The sales we make are tied to the quality of the champagne but also to the humanity of our commercial relationship.
How did you make champagne your own?
I never really realised my name was Taittinger. Perhaps when I became chairman. I’ve always been a servant of the house. I’m at the service of the house, the customers, the employees, the markets, the Champagne region, the country. I’d learned that at the schools of my childhood. I’ve always loved to serve. I grew within this house. I didn’t do it out of passion. I took care of Taittinger out of duty. My father had an important political career, my mother was an artist. These two temperaments have always been in me, but champagne, I did it out of duty. A family had fought to create this champagne brand. I experienced the sale of the group as a tragedy, and when I took back the champagne, I did it out of duty.
How did you experience the sale of the group?
It was a tragedy. The sale of the group wasn’t compulsory and the group was doing very well. There was real estate, hotels, very solid and stable positions. There was nothing really at risk. I respected this sale, but I experienced it as a tragedy. I must have a peasant streak, but I don’t like selling. I like to keep, to develop. I like selling champagne of course, but not assets. I felt it wasn’t right. We were, after all, selling off part of the French heritage: it wasn’t in line with what I thought. I learned from many people in my life, including my father, who fought a lot in his political life and who did some very fine things. The sale of the group shook me, and the story of my uncle Michel came back into my mind. He had died at 20 stopping a Panzer division on 15 June 1940, when the French command was in disarray. The act of heroism of my uncle Michel, who sacrificed his life. He blew up his battery with his last two shells, refused to surrender to the Germans and was cut down in hand-to-hand combat by a burst of machine-gun fire on a fine, sunny day. Michel was a member of the Resistance and he inspired me a great deal. I never wanted to receive the Légion d’honneur because his is in his study. His Légion d’honneur bears witness to a part of the family that has the soul of the Resistance. By buying back Champagne Taittinger, I performed an act of economic patriotism. That’s what I liked most in this affair. I really believe in that.
You can feel that your office is steeped in history.
Yes, it’s a family place. There are my uncles, my grandfather, people who mattered in this family’s history. I never really made this office my own. In fact, I’m not receiving you behind my desk but beside it. I’m just passing through. The word “chairman” had no effect on me. I’ve never put my ego into all this. I have no taste for glory and honours. My father always used to tell me: “there are only two medals that count: the medal for the mother of a large family and the lifesaving medal”. That doesn’t mean other medals aren’t important, the Légion d’honneur is a very fine decoration. But I was never interested in that. My uncle Michel’s Légion d’honneur is a star that shines ceaselessly in the firmament of my soul.
How does the buyback of the champagne go?
I went to see the regional bank. I knew it was independent and that it could make decisions without Paris’s approval. I met an absolutely wonderful man called Bernard Marie. He was more than a banker: he believed his bank should be a leader in defending the economic interests of the region. He listened attentively and he put his energy, his determination and his independence of mind into going after the champagne. It was him, his bank, and his team at Crédit Agricole du Nord Est who carried out this act. He did it because he saw I had the will to carry this house forward. We had a real relationship of trust together and we did it. There were around forty candidates from all over the world. It gradually sorted itself out. In the end we won. It comes down to the project, the price, and human and political factors. I think he knew I’m a loyal man. I had no special favours and I think they appreciated that I played by the rules like the others. I’ve always been like that in business. We’re the ones who wrote the biggest cheque.
What do you do at the start?
I think straight away about succession. There are so many companies that are incredible with an impressive founder but whose great leaders don’t organise the succession because they can’t see themselves growing old. I’ve seen this reflex in plenty of business leaders. When I became chairman, I was 55. I told myself that at 65 I’d leave. The sign of a true manager is to pass on a company in good shape, calmly and serenely. It surprised a lot of people. I decided straight away to recruit young people and to trust them by delegating. I find that I decide quickly, and that I’m a decent strategist. I parted ways quickly with a generation that was going to leave. As soon as I arrived, I surrounded myself with people more intelligent than me, with whom I shared power. Some bosses are deities and surround themselves with people less good than they are. If there’s one thing I’ve succeeded at, it’s the choice of the people who surrounded me, the spirit we created. I hired a young engineer with a lot of talent, Damien Le Sueur, in whom I placed great trust. Two of my children offered to join me. My son Clovis became the man who carries the business. Vitalie embodies the soul of the house, with a talent for communication and for bringing people together. I hired a wonderful HR director, another wonderful chap. A wonderful team then formed and an incredible momentum. They decided together who would run the leadership of the house. I’d say I trimmed the human sails of the house’s project. I was the captain of the ship. I made a few adjustments to make the ship move better than the others. The adventure of the company is a great human adventure. Two hundred and fifty years ago this was an abbey. I’ve always wanted a collegial spirit where we’re happy to be together. I’ve always had this sense of brevity. Live happy lives, love one another and do beautiful things. From now on, it’s Vitalie who will take over the leadership of the house, but it’s very collegial. Each person has their remit and a real team effort is ready. They get on very well and I’ll be there to take care of the capital, the shareholders and lots of important things in the life of the champagne. My only taste for luxury is my pair of mountain walking shoes. I love walking in the mountains in Chamonix. There I feel good.
What was your daily life as chairman of Champagne Taittinger?
We changed production sites in a very fine operation. We restructured our visitor route. We grew our sales. We developed Domaine Carneros by Taittinger in California. We launched a venture in Kent that I’m going to keep running because it’s in its cradle. We did a lot of things in 11 years. We really developed the house while I devoted myself to the Champagne region and the Champenois estate. I’m chairman of the UNESCO mission. I have voluntary commitments at the service of all. I think you have to give 10% of your time, on a voluntary basis, to something that matters to you. We must give. I’m a generous person. Generosity counts for me, and we must give time and talent to good works, to causes. Giving time on a voluntary basis is important. You’re even stronger in your professional activity when you have that.
You mentioned Kent, can you tell us more?
It’s a magnificent region, it’s the garden of England. We realised there are chalky heaths, suited to chardonnay, pinot noir and pinot meunier (some French grape varieties). Global warming makes us understand that the future will be more favourable. The English market is very important for sparkling wine: it’s the leading market for champagne after France. They’ll make sparkling wines different from champagne but of great quality. I have an English friend who has developed the brand a great deal. Out of friendship for him I wanted to work on this venture, which will be complementary. Here again, there’s an alignment of the planets: my father twinned Reims with Canterbury when he was the member of parliament and mayor. We planted the vines and we did the third harvest this year. We’ll sell the first bottle in three to four years. It’ll be called Domaine Evremont, for historical reasons. It’ll be very good. Small, but excellent. In California, we have a very accomplished estate dating from 1988. The location is excellent, at the entrance to the Napa Valley. The estate is admirably run by a remarkable woman. When I arrived at the house, I was sent to Japan. I came back saying it would go very fast. My uncle Claude said no, because of their eating habits. In the end, it took 40 years. It’ll be the same in China. The Chinese market, even though our friends at LVMH are doing an enormous amount of work to launch champagne, is similar: it’s very slow.
What is champagne to you?
Champagne is a ceremony. With champagne we celebrate a party, a success, a declaration of love, a reunion. People who were about to die have called me to their bedside to drink a glass of champagne. Champagne is more than a wine. I always fight not to taste champagne in a wine glass but in the coupe dedicated to it. When you open a bottle of champagne, something happens. Champagne is an act of love. We can’t all be the Queen of England or a billionaire. But buying a bottle of champagne for 30 to 35 euros, that’s possible. And with a bottle of champagne, you spend an hour or two like the Queen of England (editor’s note: we definitely make the most of it and don’t think about the calories in the glass). The definition of happiness is in fact very, very simple, and once you’ve understood that it’s much simpler. Happiness is a good meal with people you love. Once you know that, it makes life much simpler. I believe happiness is something fairly simple, but you realise it afterwards.
There’s a lot of talk about wine tourism.
Yes, it’s very important. I take care of it a great deal within the UNESCO mission. It’s important because these are people from all over the world who come to discover a wine region. Wine tourism is the generosity of a region. It’s an act of love they perform by visiting the region, and we give them something back. It’s also an act of culture. People come to better themselves. It’s not only the history of wine they want to hear, but the history of the Revolution, of the monks, it’s all sorts of things. Culture must be part of the life of a company, whatever it is. Nothing can be done without heritage and without culture. You can visit Champagne Taittinger by following this link.
What’s your relationship with art?
Our bottles are signed with our name. Our name, because the champagne is good, has become famous. For me, associating champagne with the other arts is important. In fact, I think anyone can be an artist. You have to add culture to art. Being very cultured counts a lot. If you’re not cultured and something goes wrong, you’re done for. What counts is having an inner richness.
If you could speak to Pierre-Emmanuel Taittinger when he joins the champagne house at 24, what would you tell him?
If you worked a little harder you could do very, very great things. That’s what I’d tell him.
How did you organise your succession?
I prepared it from the start. We worked it out gradually. The position of chairman is important, but it’s a real team that runs the business. When I was chairman, if there were disagreements, I put it to a vote. If I lost the vote, I yielded. I did something quite rare: I gave a right of veto to the general manager. They rarely used it, but I respected it on my word. It eliminates all ego and avoids bad decisions. I was very, very happy to share power. We’re all liable to make a mistake.
What are you going to say to Vitalie when she’s appointed chairwoman?
I’ll tell her: I trust you, I love you. Take care of the details. See the company as if you were beneath it. We only see things clearly when we’re in a position of inferiority. When you’re below and at the service of others, you see clearly. My heroes have always pulled me upward. But my heroes have always been people from below who do their job well. I’ll tell her to be creative, not to be afraid to leave the beaten track, to decide quickly as a team. And above all I’ll tell her: love one another. I have a particular motto I believe in: “being serious, without taking yourself seriously”. I’ve always applied that to myself.
What are you going to do afterwards?
I’m going to keep taking care of the UNESCO mission and serving the house. I’m going to take care of others. There may be things to do in the region, in the country. I want to be useful. I’d like to go fishing, but it doesn’t suit me. I want to do better than what I’ve done. I talked about my first two children, and I have a daughter, Clémence, whom I adore. I’m going to work with her in what’s called the family office. I’ll be under her authority but we’re going to work together a lot. I’ve just bought a wonderful little company that was in financial difficulty and that makes stained glass. It’s the oldest company in Reims (editor’s note: here’s a selection of wine bars in Reims). I bought it with a fellow Champenois, like me, who is a graduate of Polytechnique. It’s Philippe Varin. We love stained glass and we’re taking over this company that employs four people. We’re going to preserve the know-how to go and make magnificent stained glass all over the place.
If you had a book to recommend?
It’s very, very simple: The Little Prince and General de Gaulle’s War Memoirs. I recommend these two reads to everyone, they’re incredible and they’re a guide in life.
If you had a bottle to take to a desert island?
It’s very, very simple. The most precious thing on the planet is water. So it would be a bottle of water.
If you had a person to recommend to me for this podcast, who would it be?
I have two ideas: Bernard Arnault, because we’re very different. Otherwise, Michel Chapoutier: he’s a wonderful character, flamboyant, iconoclastic.
